Directions for a middle aged woman

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1. Pingback: The Middle-Aged Woman and Photography Outings - LEANNE COLE

2. What a shame, sad to hear, but not the 1st time either. I belong to a group that organises shoots every weekend, and there are lotsa older women involved; because we all share the same passion, what we look like does not matter. We have older women in our group who win and come highly placed in competitions and have held exhibitions and run photo trips. All great stuff. It’s as if some people have blinkers on and fail to be aware that there are great photographers of both genders, and always have been too. Sigh . . .

   1. That is great to hear that your group is like that Melvyn. Fantastic, thank you for telling us about it.

3. Leanne, I have felt like you in camera stores and elsewhere EXCEPT when I am out photographing. Maybe my face says more than I know, but seldom notice negativity when working in the field. I hear your voice very much though and will share your post for others to consider.

   1. I have been having fun, just wandering into camera stores and seeing how long it takes for someone to come up to me and ask if I need help. I don’t know that I get negative stuff, it is more the talking down to me. Thank you Sharon. I thought it would be a good post to do to show other women they aren’t alone with this.

4. OMG! I was just discussing this with a male colleague in photography. He agreed that many men are all about the tech side of photography (which makes my eyes glaze over sometimes) and the equipment. They look at women as either models, assistants or good for baby photos. If I’m at an event standing next to a man and someone else comes up they will give me a smile and then begin to converse with the guy! WTF!!! I’ve posted images where men have questioned my settings but if a guy posted a similar photo then they get accolades. Oh and the ones who have said “did you try using such and such setting” for an image even though right in the details listed there’s the setting – which they seemed to have missed reading but they just had to enlighten me. UGH! I say do you and ignore all who question you just because of your age, sex, color or grey hair… which I often get compliments on by the way!

   1. I think that sums it up perfectly. I’ve heard from many men how women only do portraits and weddings, which is really sad. Yep, apparently women can’t be good at photography, I have see that happen so much. It also happens if someone has a bigger camera, people will got to that person. I have to saw with my photography, the most criticism I’ve received has been from men. Thank you Dashfield.

5. Hello you. It’s a pleasure to see and know you a bit better along with your magnificent art.

   1. Hello Sherry, thank you.

6. Men suffer from the age aspect too. A male boss I had said that once he got to forty he stopped getting interviews when he applied for jobs. I do think however that the only way to educate patronising men is to stand your ground be a little assertive and confident even if you don’t feel it and show them that you know your stuff. Sometimes sales people in shops don’t know as much as they pretend to. I don’t buy much camera stuff but I do buy techy things and I have often found that I know more than the person in the shop and they even tell me things about the product that aren’t correct.

   1. Yes, someone on Facebook said the same thing. It is really sad. the problem is many women can’t be like that, they lack the skills. It would be good to find ways to show that women, and men, are valuable at every age. We all have something to contribute. Shops can be the worse. I hope you let them know when they are wrong RJ. Thank you.

7. It would seem we are in esteemed company. Today’s Melbourne Age newspaper carries a story about Julie Bishop, the only woman in Tony Abbott’s cabinet in 2013.

   Here’s her account of trying to make a point around the cabinet table…

   “I would say something and there would be silence, then they’d move on,” she said.

   “And then somebody else would say precisely what I’d said, precisely what I’d said, and the guys would go ‘good one, yep, we’ll have one of those, terrific idea’ and I’d think, ‘did they not hear me?’

   “I labelled it gender deafness.”

   At least we have a name for it!! And whilst Ms Bishop offers some thoughts on how this might change in parliament, I am unsure about how to apply these to my day-to-day experience of gender deafness.

   I think we all want an inclusive, respectful society. One where feel both seen and heard.

   On a very positive note, I recently purchased a new backpack from Michael’s in Melbourne (where, to be honest, I’ve had patronising experience in the past). I made an initial visit, examined options, returned a couple of days later, repeated the process and made a purchase. On both occasions I was assisted by a young girl called Amelia (at my request on the second visit). She has a degree in photography, is professional, patient, an excellent listener and utterly respectful. If every female customer insisted on being served by Amelia and Amelia only, perhaps Michael’s (and others) might start to hear us?

   1. Oh yes, Julie Bishop had it hard. I like that she is coming out and talking about it. We need more prominent women to do the same. I like the name too, Gender Deafness, it is a good description, though in some ways it goes much further as well.

      You are right, we do all want to feel as though we belong. Really that is what society is all about, belonging.

      I’m so glad to hear you ended up with a positive experience at Michael’s. Great job in not putting up with the crap and asking for her again.

      Thanks Jane, see you in the morning.

8. I love your selfie!! What you’re experiencing happens in a lot of other fields. I’ve worked in healthcare for almost 50 years and see it there. There have been many times where I have brought my car in for repair and I know exactly what’s wrong – but am looked at like I don’t know what I am talking about. As I have gotten older – I have just learned to let it go. I can’t control others – just myself and how I react to situations.

   1. Thank you Nora, I’m trying to get better with the selfies, being more open.
      It would be nice if we weren’t treated like morons just because we are women and middle aged or older. Though I hope if we start talking about it more than maybe we can make changes. I would like that.

9. I’m middle aged (well, maybe even past middle aged), and my hair is gray, and I guess I’ve just come to the place where I’m beginning to not care what others think. If I purchase anything, I research equipment and then buy it online. I live in the middle of nowhere, so we have no camera stores anyway. If I go out to take photos, I just smile at other people and otherwise ignore them. I am an introvert, so it’s not too hard to just do my own thing. No one has ever said anything to me at all about my camera equipment or the way I was taking photos, and I don’t know the reason for that. Maybe I exude a “mind your own business” attitude? LOL

   I think you take absolutely stunning photos, some of the best I’ve ever seen, and I can tell that your photographic equipment is topnotch, so you have every reason to go out there with all the confidence in the world and not pay any attention to anyone else if you don’t want to! Hang in there!

   1. It is good if you can do that attitude, not all of us can, unfortunately. It would be nice if we didn’t need it. If we could go out and not be judged because of that. I want to show others they aren’t alone, that if we can get the conversation going then maybe we can encourage one another.
      Thank you, I do try and go out with that confidence, and I have to admit I have been known to put people in their place. For me it is more many companies that think I’m not working with because of my age and gender. That is what gets me down.

   2. I do understand that. Hang in there! You are an amazing photographer!

   3. Thank you so much, I will do my best.

10. Hi Leanne,

    The top of my head started tingling as I read this so here goes with speaking up and speaking my truth. This is said with gentle compassion. The people that are looking down at you are showing you the core beliefs you feel about yourself. I didn’t understand any of this ten years ago but after much research and constant work improving my worth, confidence. etc. I walk in with power and not allow others to take it away. Sure there are times where it slips and I do lack confidence but the majority of the time “I don’t give a sh#t” (my new term for the last twelve months) because they are coming from a misunderstanding about how to treat people in general. So I would say it’s all up to us middle aged women to stand firm with our “imagined” warriors beside us and encourage people to treat us with respect by respecting ourselves first.

    Always available for a cuppa to chat.

    Joanne x

    1. I’m not sure I totally agree Joanne. I think with so many women saying the same thing, then it is hard to believe that. I think my photography is good, and I think I know what I’m talking about, but I can see that others don’t feel the same way when they look at me. There are a lot of factors. The problem I have with not caring about it, is that it doesn’t change anything. If we just accept that that is how people will be, then we will continue to be invisible. I would like to get the conversation going that women who are middle aged are worthwhile and have something to offer society. It is scary to hear about women who have looked after kids and family for their husbands, and then they get to a certain age and their husbands dump them. There are a lot of middle aged homeless women out there because of this. They can’t get jobs becasue they are considered too old.
       Thank you Joanne, where are you?

11. Well now! Invisibility is rather nice, but I have always preferred to fly under the radar, young and old. Male stupidity is nothing that we can change except slowly with time and training of our newer generations. I’m fortunate – I have a wonderful husband (and he is 20 years younger than me, and we have been together for 25+ years) – and I am retired from a good job with a good pension and was in a female-dominated business for years. The women were very nasty at times and enamored with their “authority” to the point you just laugh and walk away – as bad as males. What has saved me is my upbringing: my father sewed clothes, plowed fields, wired houses, and my mother studied engineering. Non-sexist upbringing. I was never taught to please a man and reproduce were my roles in society; rather, I was sent to college / university “to learn how to think.” Social messages were more external to the family, but they were still there and did have an impact at times. Being taught to think independently and to look outside the box helps. I continue to support women’s causes, and I continue to tear into the patriarchy with my own arrogance and confidence in what I know and can do. When I read about the game called “patriarchy chicken” I started implementing it to amusing results. So, I am a rebel without a face . . . just a blog or two! Meanwhile, I like to shoot old folding cameras along with more modern film, and certainly digital. I don’t need a man . . . a poster from my youth said “A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle.” I agree – I love my man, love men in general, and just try to take each person as he / she is, and ignore the assholes who get in my way – or let them know!

    1. while I think you have an amazing attitude and you sound like you have a lot of confidence, there are a lot of women who don’t. There is an insecurity to them. I have it as well. We need to highlight this, it will never change if we just accept it or try to get over it. It is frustrating and I don’t want to just say bugger them. I want the respect that I think we all deserve. We shouldn’t have to demand it.
       Anyway, thank you for sharing your story, it is great.

    2. Thanks, Leanne. I know most women have these issues, and that is not to say I have not had my own. However, there is a difference between an emotional response and intellectual, and the key is to understand the emotional component, its sources, and then address them with internal decisions. It’s part of getting older and learning to stop worrying and caring about others’ opinions. This doesn’t mean a disregard, but it means choosing internally, not externally – where the point of control is. The problem that women face is that we are socialized to step aside and be diplomatic; cultural norms expect this in almost every society. In days of yore, it was law. Today, with birth control, the hunter/gatherer dependency dwindles. However, cultures do not change easily, but they can and do change for the better. Keeping women dependent keeps the patriarchy alive and powerful. Insurgency begins at the grass root level – the local – the individual. It doesn’t have to be overt or violent, but it does need to occur. Many things that were once not discussed are more openly talked about – many things – and this is how change can begin. The pendulum, though, swings back and forth – and right now we seem to be caught in the gasps of many dying institutions final grabs for power . . .

    3. I guess the issue I have, is that if we turn it back onto the woman to deal with it, then the problem will never go away. We don’t people who suffer racist comments that they need to work out how to deal with it. We work together as a society to make that kind of behaviour unacceptable, so I guess I would like to see the same thing happen with this.
       Cultures do change and I think we are the result of that.

12. Yes, stay true to yourself, Leanne. Keep up the good work. Your photography is breathtakingly good.

    My motto: “No matter where you go – there you are.”

    1. Thank you Dina and I love your motto.

13. Interesting topic Leanne. I haven’t been photographing much the last two years, but I experience this too, just in other ways.
    When I visit shops and people neither see me, I’m not invisible, or they use long time to find out to offer their service, I just turn around and walk out, maybe same time, as they find time for me. I refuse to be ignored for my own money. If they want my money, they can treat me with respect or I just find another shop, who do understand this.
    Your photos are amazing and no one need to tell you, how to photograph 😀

    1. I think walking out is the best thing to do. Good point, I have done the same.
       Thank you Irene, if only that was all that was needed to be successful. I keep trying.

    2. I think, that this is the only way to get the needed respect to other people and their money Leanne.

    3. I couldn’t agree more Irene.

14. It’s dreadful that much of what you say is still so in 2019. And not only in photography. But perhaps it is an urban thing.
    My wife took up photography only a few years ago but her shots are widely appreciated in our village, by both women and men; everyone seems now to know her. She doesn’t bother with the technicalities either – she just has ‘the eye’.
    I’ve been in photographic clubs, and other clubs like for writers, and seen the same attitudes. I didn’t stay long. I’m happy to say that those attitudes do not exist in our writers’ club.
    If it helps Leanne then by all means discuss on your blog but your answer is your photography, which I’ve been following for quite a few years now, with real pleasure.

    1. I have to admit that is part of what has shocked me the most, that it is still happening.
       That is great that your wife is having a positive experience, I wish it were the same for most people.
       The attitude does rather suck, I have to admit.
       Thank you, I like discussing it because I think it helps others to understand they aren’t alone, and gets the conversation out there.

15. I have felt invisible, but that was when I had my own business. I closed it when I turned 70 because the 30 somethings didn’t think a senior could have anything valuable to contribute. That’s when I started photography, let my gray hair grow out and found a life in my new world. I’m always helped graciously at the camera store, Action Camera. They clean my camera–no charge. I’ve surrounded myself with a bunch of other seniors and we, male and female, have a great time. The younger photographers come up and great me when I’m around them. While learning, I asked a lot of questions and received help. This may just be the atmosphere in Sacramento. But getting back to when I had a business, I think it was more my age and personality (not outgoing but introverted) that held me back. Too bad. We seniors have a great deal to contribute–more experience and knowledge. Keep at it Leanne. The images in this post are awesome. By the way, so are you!

    1. I think the fact that young people feel they know everything is definitely part of the problem.That is so good to hear that you have found a store that treats you with respect. I agree, I think that just because we are grey, doesn’t mean we don’t have anything to contribute. Perhaps we need to keep reminding people that we are useful. Thank you Anne for sharing that.

16. I am older than you, Leanne, and don’t have near the talent you do, but you know what? I like getting out with my camera. I enjoy downloading my photos and seeing what I have. But it’s the assumption of people that totally ticks me off. I go into a camera store and the clerk talks to my husband. Hello! I’m the one you need to be talking to. I’m buying, not him! So I walk out. Please–let’s carry on with this conversation. You are so not alone! Thanks so much for opening this discussion.

    1. I love hearing that you love getting out with your camera Lois, it is fantastic. I know what you mean about the stores, you get the same thing when buying a car. I like your attitude, that is great. You’re welcome, I think it is good to open it up.

17. I can tell you that you’ve been an inspiration for me in pushing myself in my photography, even as I stay a complete amateur. I even wrote about it in my blog a while ago. (you can read it here if you want! https://touchingtoes.wordpress.com/2016/11/13/the-power-of-invisibility/) But I’m so sad that you have had this experience. How sad for all of us!

    1. That is wonderful to hear. I will go and read your post, thanks for the link. It is sad, but part of wanting to do the post was so we could all see how many of us experience it.

18. I am looking to retire in a couple of years, am minimizing and downsizing and generally slowing things down. I try to spend more time doing things that I love to do, hang with friends, the grandchildren, and just enjoy each day more. you are right though. it is like being caught between things, very relevant and excited about life, things bother me less, but a lot of the world doesn’t seem to get it. they treat us as we are on the downward slide, no longer relevant, instead of happy, not worried about money, and lots of time, experience and skill that goes along with us. I love the picture of the two of you –

    1. It is so crazy, how you seem to get to an age where you would think the world would be at your feet, but then the world is rejecting us. It is very sad. There just isn’t the respect for older generations that there once was. Sad really. Thank you ksbeth. I’m hoping to do more selfies for the blog.

19. Unfortunately, you described it to a tee. And Cushia’s right. I’ve been totally grey-white hair for a decade and it makes the invisibility more so (if that was possible). I’m in the US and it’s gotten worse and more blatant since the 2018 election. Hard to find a good response to such insecure idiots, so I generally just glare or say “thanks for the help I’ll Try it on my Hasselblad.

    1. It is so sad, I have to agree Brook. It would be good if we got more respect. It drives me nuts at times. Sorry to hear it is getting worse, though I’ve heard a few things and I’m not at all surprised. Thanks Brook.

20. Sending a Facebook PM.

    1. Got it.

    2. Your photos are beautiful. I think as photographers we tend to hide anyhow behind the camera. I have done it for years. But also as a middle aged woman. And a short 4’10” I am overlooked on both counts. We just have to say hey look our work! This for me is hard. With a terabyte hard drive full of photos. Someday I will share. Hopefully sooner than later. You have understood my struggle more than anyone else has ever written. Thank you for that. My only advice from this age, is to just do you. You are doing great. Keep doing it. People will see you. At least the ones that matter.

    3. Thank you Lori, you are right, we can hide behind our cameras. Oh, I’m short too, not as, but 5’2, so still below average. I hope you do share one day, it can be really nice to do it. It is a struggle, and I hear from so many women the same thing. I like being able to show others they aren’t alone. For me the real struggle is with companies who think I don’t have anything valuable to offer.

21. Oh wow!! Leanne, your words describe me to a tee! Daughter basically left home, working uni, comes home once a week. Hubby hardworking, I work part time according to School term, and do end up with a lot of time on my hands. There is only so much housework a person can do! I love taking photos, so last year purchased a second hand Canon EOS 600D. I love getting out! But yeah, if it’s with a group and say oh I would like to do blah blah blah, I’m ignored, and often feel what I would like never matters, or even my thoughts or ideas. I have an old camera and that can be be “oh that’s old” I am still learning, but aren’t we all! Marketers should be contacting us! How many women get given gear to try out? On each workshop I’ve been on, it’s mainly women over 40, so I don’t understand why we get ignored.As I approach 50, I do feel old huffing back up the hill from a waterfall, but at least I’m out there. I feel very similar to you, and so do some friends. We work together in keeping each other motivated, we know when the other is struggling, we get how each other feel, so wee look after each other. I have no idea on how we get the short end of the stick. Thank you for what you wrote. Stay true to you, stay strong and keep shooting!

    1. That is horrible Vicki. I hate it when that sort of thing happens. It shouldn’t matter what camera you have. I couldn’t agree more, marketers should be contacting us. I’ve noticed the same with workshops, there always seems to be a majority of middle aged women.
       That is great that you have friends that help you keep motivated. I am a bit the same, but my favourite people to go and take photos with are all women around my age. We understand one another. We understand how important toilets are to outings. lol. Thank you Vicki, loved hearing from you. It is good to share and I think it helps others understand they aren’t alone.

22. Oh stuff them. I am a female 70 yr old photographer and the older men are the worse. I buy everything online. Stuff the male chauvanistic males in shops. If I find a supportive shop I will support them. I do my own thing with photography. If someone gives me unwanted advice I get assertive and say, I know what I’m doing or that doesn’t compliment my art.
    It’s important to be assertive. I don’t need to dwell on it. For every few stupid men I find one or two who aren’t. Hang out with the support base. Ignore or stay away from those who aren’t. I’m a motorbiker too. I get the same thing with many bikers. The men think all women on motorbikes wear pink and are size 6. They aren’t. Make jokes, laugh a lot and have fun. Be yourself and don’t give a rat’s patootie what the chauvanistic, sexist people of the world think. And if you enter competitions use Initials for your first name or a name that can be male or female. That’s what female authors used to do. It’s getting better I feel but there is a ways to go. Keep your sense of humour and think up some funny comeback statements. My 2 cents, haha😎😎😎

    1. I wish we could all be assertive Pam. I’m afraid I am not very good at it. Sorry to hear you get it from the motorbike people are as well. It is crazy. We do have a way to go, though, I wonder sometimes if we will ever get there.
       Yes, you can never lose your sense of humour. Thanks for sharing your experiences Pam. Stay safe on that bike.

23. I just find I’m not taken seriously period and that includes by some people I know. People want/expect shoots for nothing or next to nothing. I love photography but I have to admit I’ve taken a step back from it this year. The drive isn’t there like it used to be but some personal things have contributed to that. I had a dream once that perhaps I could make a partial living from photography… But that’s been pretty much put to bed so I’ll just continue my day job (which I often don’tike) that pays the bills. There are some that this photography gig works for but many that it doesn’t. The younger, more agile popular population on social media folk often don’t do bad…. Some of those folk are happy with others success and very encouraging, some not so much. Yes, us mid age women rarely get a look in. I don’t know what the answer is.

    1. Oh, oh, I feel for you Noeline and know exactly what you are talking about. I get that all the time as well.Though it has always happened to me. I’m so sorry to hear that you are losing your drive. I never like hearing that. It is all about the young it seems these days. I can remember when being old deserved respect, but it doesn’t seem the case anymore. Thanks for sharing that Noeline.

24. I’ve not really had that experience yet. I have a friend similar age that has grumped about the issue many times. I think I must put on my mom’s persona when I want to be seen and get service and respect. It seems to work, but I can be invisible when I want to be. I’m loving your tree photos.

    1. I will say just my age on a job application seems to now be a negative and I’m just not getting interviews any more–most irritating.

    2. Oh I can that Bec, I have a friend and it took her a long time to find another job. Seems if you are older these days, your experience isn’t worth a damn.

    3. Maybe you do Bec, I’m sure it can be about that at times. Thank you Bec.

25. First of all, what beautiful, beautiful set of images. I smiled when I saw the first one of the tree in Tassie – I look at it every morning when I wake up and every night as I go to bed. Pride of place on Anui!

    I have felt what you have – the invisibility, the condescending attitude from men, not so much with photography but very much so in the sailing world. It is a bloke thing I think. Men assume that women are just passengers on yachts. I find that it is the actions you take that can change their tunes! They get a bit of a shock when it’s me who brings the boat in to jetties and marinas! I have dealt with this attitude through my behaviour and also through writing articles and talking about those issues… It helps me and it helps position me differently. So I think what you are doing in raising the matter on your blog is a great way to handle it. Your images my friend speak for themselves: you are a skilled photographer that stands out from the crowd… Your choice of the trees, standing alone and strong are a great metaphor.

    1. I’m so glad to hear that the image has a new home. It is one of my favourites from there.

       I am sure it happens in many different fields. It is rather sad really. I hate hearing about it. I am glad you think me doing posts like this is a good thing. Thank you Chris, that is really nice to hear about the photography.

26. I get it all the time when I’m taking photos.. Men who want to tell me how I’m taking the photo wrong and tell me how to do it properly. I used to get upset.. Nowadays I say.. “Oh i don’t care…I’m a Photoshop expert.. I’ll fix it there”.. they tend to just stare at me and don’t know what to say. I could fire up and tell them what knobs they are being.. but to what end? It won’t change their chauvanistic outlook.. But in shops? Yes.. that is such a stupid attitude for businesses to have.

    1. I just look at the guys that do that too me, or I just say, yeah I know. I try not to engage. They are annoying.
       Yeah, shops, I don’t get it. Why would you go back to a store that treats you that way. Thanks for sharing Livonne.

27. If you think it is bad at your age and I agree with you, then wait until you are my age with grey hair! Keep up the good work. I started dong more photography and took up art when I had retired. I feel often I am unheard as well as invisible.

    1. Oh no Cushla, sounds like you know what I’m talking about. So far the grey has been holding off, it is there, but my natural colour hides it well. It is a common problem being invisible. Thank you for sharing Cushla, really appreciate it.

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